PernMU Forums

Ultimately, the site never belonged to Ista Weyr as an area. None of the wiki sites do. They are all fan driven pages for ease of access. Sure, a lot of them have been set up by area admins, but the offical area page? Is hosted on Pernworld.net.
Yes, this is the site that has been in use for a little over a year by Ista residents to maintain easy to access character and log listings. But that's it. The site ultimately belongs to its creator, not the area. Ysa just now finally did what she should have in the first place and established her own site as the current admin. She should have done that when the owner of the site didn't pass it on in the first place, and taken the necessary steps to update her area and the MUSH accordingly.

Too true.

But no one said Ysa was a fantastic leader. But in this instance, I don't know that you'll find much support for your outrage.

But this is RVF, and you're right, you should totally be able to rant and vent, but know that people are going to just laugh and flame right back. You don't have to defend yourself every single time, no matter how amusing for the rest of us it is.

If an area's page is not sitting on someone's personal server, then in point of fact, it does not 'belong' to its creator. When you make a site for a game or an area, you're making it not for yourself, the creator, but for your playerbase. It belongs to the area, not to the individual that makes it. Think about it. There's no value in that information for a single person, only for the group of people who play in the area.

Also, if the official area pages are hosted on Pernworld.net then the area admins should always have access to those and those should be the ONLY set of pages where actual official information is posted. Any other pages should be clearly marked as unofficial in order to avoid confusion.
My impression however, is that pernworld.net is owned by Mynti and hosted on Mynti's servers which opens up the issue of anyone but her being able to really update anything there? Unless I'm totally wrong about how that works.

However, the fact of the matter is, that it's the wikidot pages that /function/ as the actual informational resources and are the ones that are multi-authored and owned. The very NATURE of a wiki is multi-author ownership, so saying that a wiki belongs to its creator is pretty disingenuous.

Feelings are mutual. But that doesn't mean I don't love PernWorld. The internet is vast, as you say, but why leave? The game is big. Our area is fun, other areas are fun, the people are awesome like you can't imagine save for two or three people that don't matter because they don't play there, and the RP is amazing. Isn't that what matters when it comes to the games? So I'll keep to my area, and we'll RP like the good old days and keep it fun. And occasionally this requires making a page we can all be a part of.

Istans, rock on.

As far as what is said afterwards: Thank you Aya for stating it as it is supposed to be. Either way, the information is out there. If you do not want to open up a different wikipage just because someone else owns it... well, I'm not going to start on how immature that sounds. Ista never had any official page. And if you want to begin on what I should have done over half a year ago, well... I didn't see any reason to bother. Not until the players of the area continued to express desires to see changes on the wikipage and the current owners became a problem in not following with their responsibilities.

Wiping off my dusty cap to say this:

You're crying over a freaking wikidot?

This deserves a lol. On so, so many levels. Seriously.

Also: I'd be more understanding if it was said-previous-wikidot's-owner posting here and going ZOMG PEW PEW PEW ROFLSTOMP, but... I'm sorry, 3rd parties rushing in to rant over a matter they clearly aren't involved in, and know little to nothing about? QQ more.

PS: I have never used this many acronyms in a post before, because I never felt as if acting like a lolcat did anything constructive on the matter. There's obviously no way to be constructive, here. So. ZOMGLAZ3RSPEWPEWPEW!!!

Just found out something more on this. Ysa? You removed and banned the admin/mods of the wiki you were moving everything from? LOL! I don't know whether to congratulate you or just eyeroll.

Okay, somebody correct me if I'm wrong about this chain of events.

New leadership takes over at Ista.

Eventually, new leadership is given the password to the wiki by the head game admin.

The new leadership removes the old leadership from the wiki administration, and then sets about removing the old site and setting up the new site.

Now, who Wikidot according to their policies thinks owns the wiki is something else entirely, but in game terms I'd say we've got a pretty clear chain of events here in which ownership of the area website is clearly passed on to the area admins by the highest authority on the game, from which point they proceed to behave in a way that, strictly speaking, is completely in accordance with the way new leaderships typically behave towards their area websites.

Am I missing something here? I'm not saying Ysa is the Best Weyrwoman Ever. I'm not saying Mynti's a great game admin. That doesn't matter. Mynti owns the game. Ysa is her area's head admin. If Mynti placed some explicit qualifications upon the granting of this password like, "And of course you won't remove the old leadership, will you?" then that's another story, but we don't seem to have any evidence of those things here.

Removing makes perfect sense to me. Banning from the complete site just seems petty.

Chain of events as best as I can cobble together:

Last year: Ysa takes over at Ista.

In between: Ysa and new Ista leadership emails the old leadership about getting admin access to the wikidot. Niva/Ari also sets new policy that solidifies her position and Xanadu's situation.

Last week: Ysa given access to the ista.wikidot.com site, but not ownership. Decides to create a new wikidot (why now and not before, who knows), because she's afraid (probably rightfully) of being banned again from her own area's representative wiki by the 'owners'. She automatically bans the old leadership from the new wiki and puts redirects on the old site to point to the new site on certain key pages, including weyrling information and logs.

Yesterday: Shit hits the fan. People from PernWorld that are anti-Ysa go around and 'fix' the links to the other PernWorld wikidots changing the Ista link from isw.wikidot.com (which I assume Ysa or someone changed them to) to ista.wikidot.com. They also re-revise the ista.wikidot.com to reflect the old site and add a disclaimer about being maliciously hacked. This effectively makes all 'official' links from other PernWorld Weyr sites point to ista.wikidot.com, which will only confuse people in the end. Real winner there. On all sides.

What's at issue here: Moriana is pissed and is going off on why Ysa has any right to do any of this, when if her peeve had been more: this sucks for the players and for continuity and history of information, she might have garnered more sympathy rather than laughter.

Has the old wiki vanished, or am I just made of fail?

And to add to Aya's bit, which more or less matches what I was told earlier, Ysa banned them from the old wiki even though there was the new one and then booted at least one of them from the Ista knot where they still had a character.

This is getting amusing and tiring at the same time. I really appreciate everyone who is able to look at it sensibly and still reply to the thread, though at this point all cases have been addressed more than once.

As the area leader there is nothing wrong with removing and banning people. An example: the fact that I myself have been removed and banned from wikis long before the decision to make a new wiki for Ista Weyr, without notification or reason. The only difference is that I don't flame on forums about it, much less anonymously to hide. They are not my areas or wikis. Either way, I don't think this is a good argument as owners of wikis and area leaders have been doing so for months, for years, and likely since the beginning of Pern games. Who knows, I haven't been around that long.

Idle characters that do not sign in for months are removed after a certain period of time, troublesome players, etc. As noted by everyone above, the wiki was done as prevention. Old and new. No, unfortunately you cannot remove and ban the Master Admin or there wouldn't have been any problems. A minor hope in that they wouldn't do just what they did: misdirect people on the old site and remove the forwarding address. It's good the old site was removed/hidden/whatever. Other members have now been removed and informed me, which helps in spreading the new address. Problem solved. Have a good day.

I do want to note that it is a Wiki we're talking about, here. Ysa wasn't begging anybody else to update her webpage for her - we all had the power. The power!

I'd probably have been a little pissed at not having the admins to the site, too, but I would have more than likely made do. Ysa's pissed and moaned about the subject every time it came up.

I would know. I heard it first-hand.

At any rate, it's going to be interesting to see how Ysa finally hands over leadership. If she ever does, considering that big to-do they made last cycle about how they were looking for an "heir" to "train."

Just because it's a wiki doesn't mean anyone can edit it. The permissions were restricted, so that it took a moderator/admin to rename pages - such as a character page for a newly impressed rider.

Now, that may not seem like a big deal, it's no trouble to keep links pointing to the old page, but then people would have to be aware of that when linking to that character's page, and that seems like a bit much to ask. This isn't just a 'pulled out of my arse' situation, either. It came up after the last PC hatching, with people linking to 'A'ra', which was an existing page for a former character, rather than 'Ashiira', whose page name had remained the same as our one Istan moderator hadn't gotten around to renaming the weyrling pages yet, but who had also elided to A'ra.